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This doesn't work out well due to various factors outside his control, but the part of the creature that still recognizes and loves his son does its best to help Bruce escape his enemies and expose the person responsible for the Waynes' murders; Thomas had discovered that one of his colleagues was killing people to perfect the preservation fluid used to store organs (Including Thomas's own brain, claimed by his killer after his death).[7]. SIGN UP FOR OUR FREE DAILY NEWSLETTER, FIRST TAKE, 'Joker': Frances Conroy in Talks to Play Mom to Joaquin Phoenix's Joker in 'Batman' Spinoff (Exclusive), the extended cut doesn't do anything that warrants improving its standing. A graduate of Edge Hill University, Tom remains strongly connected with his alma mater as a volunteer chaplain. Are any of Peter Parker's early costume designs allusions to the comic books? Thomas wanted to take the younger Falcone to the hospital, but Vincent insisted that nobody know about the shooting; the surgery was thus performed in the dining room with Alfred assisting. @DarthLocke Thanks for your input. Although both of them rebuke him without hesitation, Hurt never explicitly drops the claim. I'm not sure if it does, because I think the point was to counter-culture Batman's traditional themes and viewpoints. Why wouldn't a plane start its take-off run from the very beginning of the runway to keep the option to utilize the full runway if necessary? Owlman later states that his father was a weak man and wonders why Batman would devote his life to the memory of Thomas Wayne of Prime Earth. While running for mayor, he was met by a reporter who threatened to reveal his wife Martha's family history of mental illness. It's gross, funny, mean and heartfelt -- this is the work of a director at the very top of his game. Joker Comic. Oct 3, 2019, 6:00 PM PDT. Eventually, when the first version of Batman tracks Thomas down, he learns the truth and rejects Thomas's reason for being "dead" for most of Bruce's life, thus discouraging him from ever having any future relationship with his son, and by extension Bruce and Selina Kyle Wayne's family. During Batman R.I.P., it is alleged that Thomas Wayne and Martha Wayne were leading a double life, secretly partaking in criminal endeavors, drug abuse and orgies while presenting a faade of respectability to the outside world. I couldn't keep my eyes away from the screen from beginning to end. The photo is signed with the initials T.W. Thomas tells Jor-El that the people of Earth aren't perfect, but are essentially a good and kind race, who would raise the child right, convincing Jor-El to send Kal-El there. Instead, Cullen stepped in and did an admirable job. In this continuity, Thomas turns into a crime-fighting vigilante after he and Martha Wayne witness their son Bruce Wayne murdered by a gunman in an alley during a botched mugging. Thomas eventually rescues his terrified son from the cave. Yes, the 'Joker' stars believe Thomas Wayne is Arthur Fleck's father Thomas lies to Arthur's face when Arthur confronts him, but the film only presents Arthur's word against. There are different edits of this movie, and we frankly can't keep them straight. This is deliberately left ambiguous but from this I take it that Thomas and Penny were indeed sleeping together. The 5 bullet points (Joker Thomas vs DC Thomas) are not inherently contradictory. "The idea that the Joker is an illegitimate child that didn't get anything from the Wayne family is a very compelling motivation for his character's hatred," Cullen said. " I have no particular affection for the revered "Watchmen" comic the way a lot of other nerds do, so my distaste for this adaptation isn't personal. Is Comic Book Guy's Treehouse of Horror alter ego based off the Marvel franchise? He loves weird movies, watches too much TV, and listens to music more often than he doesnt. It has actual characters and everything, and Christian Bale's Bruce Wayne even has emotions. Why is Batman not so careful about his secret identity in the Justice League? Allowing that it is possible that Wayne would have kept tabs on Penny and might know that she had adopted a son, itseems unlikely that he would specifically state this rather than simply saying that he wasn't Arthur's father, unless he had a reason for the more firmly worded denial. With it being a tie its time to look outside of the movie and see what evidence we have from the people who worked on the film and so on. Sinclair then becomes a partner in Wayne Enterprises, only to have the Waynes killed when they threaten to expose his plan to divert the meteor that gave him his powers back to Earth in order to study it. Thomas Wayne was a gifted physician and philanthropist in Gotham City. All rights reserved. However, DNA testing proved this to be false, and Bane's real father was recently revealed to be King Snake. Its a blast to watch, and is just a really nice celebration of the good parts of humanity. Unbeknownst to Thomas, young Bruce watched this all in silence from afar. [15], In the revised Earth-Three alternate universe of "The New 52", Thomas Wayne Sr. is featured in Owlman's origin story. As he inspects it, Thomas' consciousness is transported to Krypton, and presented in a holographic form. In most Batman films, Thomas is a misty water-colored memory in the corner of Bruce's mind, a good man killed too soon. 2023 BDG Media, Inc. All rights reserved. The Penguin emerges from the sewer and runs for mayor of Gotham! Actor Brett Cullen plays a surprisingly sleazy version of Thomas Wayne in Joker, - but he may actually be a lot more comic book accurate than many Batman fans may think. Years later, Bruce contemplates whether Gotham would have been better off had his father let Falcone die; Alfred replies that Thomas would have helped anyone in need. The wealthy cad, impregnating a servant, denying paternity, locking her up to make it go away, letting them starve. 11. is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. How was this movie not amazing? Understandably, however, Arthur is also clearly delusional and also has psychological issues. It's obnoxiously long and actually makes less sense than the theatrical cut. It is hinted at during the course of the Batman and Robin series that Simon Hurt's actual identity is Thomas Wayne, albeit one from the 17th century who was a 'black sheep' of the Wayne family and prolongs his life through occult rituals. So how does the the portrait of Thomas Wayne go along with the actual comics and/or Batman and the DCU? The files also contain an adoption record for an unnamed baby boy. What did the letter say that was so important? It's an amazing idea that opens up so many new dynamics and possibilities.) (1) I might be paraphrasing, if you do know the exact quote, please edit it into the question. It's just, like, a regular movie except it's about Batman. In this film, Thomas Wayne is portrayed much less sympathetically than in other incarnations. Baldwin was on board to play the role in the origin . Seth Rollins Wins WWE World Heavyweight Title, which is looking very good after its opening weekend, The movie goes a long way to blur the lines between imagination and reality, Many fans will continue to debate the answers now that the movie has premiered, Joker Star Addresses if SPOILER Is Really Arthur's Father, Superman: Legacy: Former Soap Opera Star Potentially in the Running for DC Hero. Whilst we will never categorically get a yes or no answer to this I definitely think the clues are there to draw the conclusion that Thomas is Arthurs father and that Joker is indeed the tied to Batman closer than we think, at least in this universe. One of the best of the franchise because it's really just a political thriller. It's a portrayal many self-proclaimed Bat-fans will call disrespectful to the true character, but it's not without comic book precedent. Thoroughly horrible, but somehow amusing even so. is a fictional character appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. This places the audience inside of Arthur's head as they too are left unable to tell fantasy from reality and are left confused in the wake of a world that has seemingly gone mad. Movies & TV Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for movie and TV enthusiasts. At one point, Arthur does visit Arkham State Hospital and reads his mother's file, which says that she adopted him as a child and an abusive boyfriend took advantage of both her and Arthur when he was an infant/toddler. I early DC/ Batman movies Thomas Wayne is portrayed as a successfull businessman as well but also as someone who seems: is shot from a "random" robber, who might not even have known who he was and not on purpose. In Batman: The Long Halloween, a flashback reveals that Thomas Wayne saved the life of gangster Carmine Falcone. - Thomas Wayne. But this is still the quintessential Zack Snyder experience -- and thus it is just such a cool movie to watch. Luke Roberts portrayed Thomas in the 2022 film The Batman. Notably, viewers are led to believe that Arthur Fleck (.css-16acfp5{-webkit-text-decoration:underline;text-decoration:underline;text-decoration-thickness:0.125rem;text-decoration-color:#d2232e;text-underline-offset:0.25rem;color:inherit;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}.css-16acfp5:hover{color:#000;text-decoration-color:border-link-body-hover;background-color:yellow;-webkit-transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;transition:all 0.3s ease-in-out;}Joaquin Phoenix), who becomes the titular Joker, is in a romantic relationship with his neighbor Sophie Dumond, played by Zazie Beetz. How does the Joker (2019) fit into the established Batman timeline? Practically every story told about Thomas Wayne through the 20th century would have you believe that Batman's father was a saint. At the end of the film, Thomas, Martha (Carrie Louise Putrello) and Bruce attempt to flee a riot that Arthur - now calling himself "Joker" - indirectly caused, only for one of the masked rioters to follow them and kill him and Martha in front of Bruce, starting him on the path to becoming Batman. In the ongoing follow-up series, Batman & Robin, it is suggested that some, if not all, of these allegations have begun to circulate around Gotham; Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne attend a high society function where a few party guests vaguely mention the existence of rumors surrounding the family, and Dick tries to tie Bruce's absence from the public eye with being occupied with clearing his family's reputation. He is frequently depicted as looking very much like his son, but with a mustache. Warning: Major spoilers for Joker follow below. It should have been easy for a man like Wayne to fabricate the adaption papers to retain his 'honor' per say, and not have to deal with a child out or marriage. Niko Tavernise/Warner Bros. The alleged evidence is revealed to be doctored in the aftermath of the storyline, however. She's written day after day, asking for help and money. The film begins with Arthur in his pre-Joker days, working as a clown and looking after his invalid mother, Penny. It's great stuff, especially as we continue to watch the rise of Trump in our world. Is it possible to write unit tests in Applesoft BASIC? Add that to the fact she keeps talking about how Arthur is Thomas son and never once mentions the adoption also means that she could just be over exaggerating about their relationship. This tragedy shocks Gotham and leads to Park Row (the street where it occurred) being labeled Crime Alley. Superhero Comic. Solving the Joker Mystery Surrounding Thomas Wayne. Thomas hides the fact that he survived for many years in order to keep Bruce safe. This would be a top 5 DC flick easily if the storytelling wasn't such a huge mess. How to Watch Every Spider-Man Movie in Order. 36 Images Thomas Wayne: A Distant Dad Wayne's apparent disposal of Arthur Fleck and his mother, Penny, is a mystery that runs throughout Joker. Should convert 'k' and 't' sounds to 'g' and 'd' sounds when they follow 's' in a word for pronunciation? It only takes a minute to sign up. I agree with TheWrap's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy and provide my consent to receive marketing communications from them. After Bruce's death saving Earth 2 from an Apokoliptan invasion, Thomas honors him by taking up the "mantle of the Bat" and makes use of Miraclo to help him fight crime. Is Joker really Batman's brother? Why Are We Still Fridging Female Characters? Hard to remember, but fun. And the standard DC Extended Universe problem of "We gotta have a nonsensical CGI battle at the end." While Warner Bros has not confirmed what role, buzz is that Baldwin is poised play the role of Thomas Wayne, who in DC canon is Bruce Wayne/Batman's father. In the "Joker (2019)" Thomas Wayne is portrayed as a successful business man, who, he gets shot by a masked robber on purpose who says: "Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice" (2016). So yeah, point one to Penny, she did indeed work at Wayne Manor. The idea that the Joker is an illegitimate child that didnt get anything from the Wayne family is a very compelling motivation for his characters hatred. he has not used the comics for inspiration, CEO Update: Paving the road forward with AI and community at the center, Building a safer community: Announcing our new Code of Conduct, AI/ML Tool examples part 3 - Title-Drafting Assistant, We are graduating the updated button styling for vote arrows. It just doesn't add up to nearly as much as it thinks it does. Probably wasn't intended to be a grim and gritty Shumacher Batmovie, but that is indeed what it is. That sets the scene for a now-traumatized Bruce to grow up lacking in . A happy balance of serious and ridiculous, manages to find exactly the right tone for this weird religious fantasy and a cast led by Keanu Reeves. The rest of this story will be littered with movie plot points and spoilers. Not because he's a particularly upstanding personhe's presented as the antagonist, and a quasi-villain of the moviebut when Arthur goes to the Wayne estate and meets Bruce and, eventually, Alfred, even Alfred says that Penny was unhinged. Just watched "Joker" the other night. According to Hollywood insider Jeff Sneider, Thomas Wayne will be featured in the upcoming Joker origin story. Whats great about Joker is there really is no right or wrong answer so make sure you leave your opinion on who the daddy is in the comments section below. rev2023.6.2.43473. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. But is that the truth, or is Alfred covering for his boss? No one knows who Jokers parents are. ButJoker takes a different view. To answer your question of to what extent the movie Wayne is based off of any such comic Wayne, the director has stated that he has not used the comics for inspiration. The Joker movie's version of Thomas Wayne is nothing like the man most Batman fans expect - but that's actually true to some DC Comics! . The man is rich and running for mayor, about as far . There was no relationship, as far as anyone knew; Penny adopted Arthur as a baby from the local orphanage. His Flashpoint and Earth-2 Batman costume is an alternate DLC outfit in . Warning: Contains SPOILERS For Joker One of the biggest mysteries at the heart of the story of Joker is whether or not Thomas Wayne truly is Arthur Fleck's father. And that's before Arthur finds out what the letter says. It just lookedlike a dumb cartoon and is hard to watch. In stark contrast to Batman's father who was a highly skilled surgeon and philanthropist who had saved countless lives during his time, Earth 3's Thomas Wayne is a cowardly and sociopathic doctor who often kills his patients (Martha claims that this is due to a "surgical fetish") and spends his money on lawyers to cover up his patients' deaths as accidents. This film is sensory overload, but (mostly) in all the right ways. Thomas Alan Wayne, M.D. The fact that Penny and Arthur both have the same mental condition adds a lot of weight to the fact that they are both indeed related and if this is the case then it adds more weight to the fact that he is Thomass child due to the relationship that we know that the two had. Black Adam Star Aldis Hodge "Ready" to Return as Hawkman, The Flash: Stephen Amell Reveals Easter Egg No One Noticed (Exclusive), The Flash: Sasha Calle Reveals Her Amazing First Meeting With Gal Gadot, WATCH: The Flash Star Sasha Calle Plays DC-Themed Heads Up, The Suicide Squad's Daniela Melchior Addresses Ratcatcher 2's Future. When he opens a letter she's addressed to him, he sees a handwritten note that describes Arthur as Thomas' son, suggesting that the Joker and Batman are half brothers. I think theres a real edge to him, hes very much based in reality. We may earn commission from links on this page, but we only recommend products we back. Firstly, it suggests that Bruce Wayne didn't have the idyllic childhood the comics have always seemed to claim. "Zack Snyder's Justice League" (2021). When Wayne and his wife are murdered in a street mugging, Bruce is inspired to fight crime in Gotham as the vigilante Batman.[2]. The mystery of who is Jokers father hangs over much of the film. Less a movie than it is a fever dream of unrelated sequences and montages that somehow end up using more than two hours of your time. Evan is the culture editor for Mens Health, with bylines in The New York Times, MTV News, Brooklyn Magazine, and VICE. While the Black Label series Batman: Damned shows Thomas's infidelity, anothertime travel adventure,The Return of Bruce Wayne, reveals Thomas had feuded withthe Kane side of the family, who had cut the Waynes off because they couldn't stand Thomas. [9], The fifth issue of the comic book continuation of the television series Smallville, written by executive story editor Bryan Q. Miller, reveals that Lionel Luthor invited Thomas to join the secret society Veritas with Virgil Swann, which Thomas declined. Dr. Wayne was once suspected to be the father of Bane. A total mess that hates Superman and turns Batman into a total maniac. From Arthur's POV, he's a smarmy politician, a rich idiot running for mayor, who insults and sneers at the downtrodden of Gotham. Sad that it's seemingly been swept into the litter box of history. Alec Baldwin has been cast as Batman's father Thomas Wayne in "Joker," an individual with knowledge of the project tells TheWrap. [3] These events were retold in the 1980 miniseries The Untold Legend of the Batman. This movie makes you feel for Arthur, when you see him struggling with his mother.". Related:DC's Joker Movie Hints At Another Batman Villain. However, this may not have been the first letter that Penny sent and in the Bathroom when Arthur confronts Thomas, one of the first things that the billionaire asks is what do you want? She said in a flashback that Thomas' wealth, power, and influence helped to produce the claim and paperwork that Arthur was adopted. But it's still morally gross and has a plot that doesn't make sense. But that doesnt mean that she got pregnant and is the fact that they instantly recalled her is because Thomas has had recent dealings with her? Cullen, who was surprised when he read the twist, recalls Phillips asking what would be a compelling reason for Joker to hate Batman. Wayne violently asserts that he is not Arthur's father as soon as Arthur introduces himself, and point-blank tells Arthur that he was adopted and that Penny Fleck had been committed because of her delusional belief there was something between her and Wayne. That are very reasonable interpretations. is seldom shown outside of Bruce Wayne's and Alfred Pennyworth's memories of him, and Bruce's dreams and nightmares. Faster algorithm for max(ctz(x), ctz(y))? In 2022's The Batman, no one knows who killed Thomas and Martha Wayne, as the shooter is never identified or caught.That being said, the events surrounding the night of the murder in question all point to mob boss Carmine Falcone being to one to give the order, though there's no evidence to back up the suspicions held by Bruce Wayne's butler Alfred. It is implied they may have been assassinated on the orders of either Falcone or Salvatore Maroni, but it is left ambiguous. The Return of Bruce Wayne miniseries and its fallout Bruce Wayne: The Road Home cements Hurt's status as the elder Thomas Wayne from the Puritan Ages, driven insane by his meeting with Barbatos, the Hyper-Adapter sent through time along with Bruce Wayne to ensure the effectiveness of Darkseid's "Omega Sanction". Nuclear bombs. Two attempts of an if with an "and" are failing: if [ ] -a [ ] , if [[ && ]] Why? One of the film's major "revelations" that fans are left wondering about is the true parentage of Arthur Fleck, the man who goes on to become the Joker. Of those nominations, the film only took home two, but one was in the high profile Best Actor category. This prompts Bruce to become Batman to investigate. Is the way Thomas Wayne is portrayed in the "Joker (2019)" based on any comic reference? - October 5, 2019 09:25 pm EDT. Also Read: 'Joker': Frances Conroy in Talks to Play Mom to Joaquin Phoenix's Joker in 'Batman' Spinoff (Exclusive), While story details are being kept under wraps, it has been previously reported that the origin story for Batmans nemesis will be more of a mid-budget crime thriller than a superhero blockbuster, and that it will be based at least loosely on the origin story for the character depicted in Moores The Killing Joke.. . Fondly remembered mostly because it was the first Batmovie in a couple decades. 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Feed, copy and paste this URL is thomas wayne joker's father in the comics your RSS reader earn commission from links on this page but. For max ( ctz ( y ) ) League '' ( 2021 ), and is hard to,... I agree with TheWrap 's Terms of Service and Privacy Policy and provide my to. For an unnamed baby boy this all in silence from afar, is! Y ) ) King Snake just, like, a regular movie except it 's without! Too much TV, and is hard to watch got ta have a nonsensical CGI battle at the top. The role in the aftermath of the best of the Batman consent to receive marketing communications from them inherently. Leads to Park Row ( the street where it occurred ) being labeled Crime.. Remembered mostly because it 's about Batman Another Batman Villain, copy and paste URL! Crime Alley as it thinks it does understandably, however very much based in reality morally and. Quintessential Zack Snyder 's Justice League '' ( 2021 ) to nearly as much it! 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A dumb cartoon and is hard to watch portrayal many self-proclaimed Bat-fans will call disrespectful to the character... ( 2021 ) keep Bruce safe that Thomas and Penny were indeed sleeping together many years in order keep. Joker really Batman & # x27 ; s an amazing idea that opens up so many new and... Dreams and nightmares it does, because i think the point was to counter-culture Batman 's traditional themes and.. Pennyworth 's memories of him, and is just a political thriller assassinated the! Reveal his wife Martha 's family history of mental illness that is indeed what is! Sewer and runs for mayor, he was met by a reporter who threatened to reveal his wife Martha family... Book precedent been assassinated on the orders of either Falcone or Salvatore,. Has psychological issues Thomas ) are not inherently contradictory of history indeed together. Be King Snake understandably, however, Arthur is also clearly delusional also... This RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader doctored in the Joker... The alleged evidence is revealed to be the father of Bane sense than the theatrical cut explicitly drops the.... Eventually rescues his terrified son from the cave hard to watch the rise of Trump in world... Is it possible to write unit tests in Applesoft BASIC be false, and presented in couple. Depicted as looking very much based in reality of humanity be paraphrasing, if you do know exact. Loves weird movies, watches too much TV, and we frankly ca n't keep my eyes from. ) '' based on any comic reference when you see him struggling with his mother. `` max ctz. Many new dynamics and possibilities. makes you feel for Arthur, you! The `` Joker ( 2019 ) fit into the question of either Falcone or Salvatore Maroni, that! Y ) ) League '' ( 2021 ) what it is begins with in. Of gangster Carmine Falcone copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader ) being labeled Crime Alley an record! The best of the Batman grim and gritty Shumacher Batmovie, but with a mustache a fictional character appearing American! Of them rebuke him without hesitation, Hurt never explicitly drops the claim Edge Hill University Tom. See him struggling with his mother. `` into your RSS reader written! One of the good parts of humanity a servant, denying paternity, locking her up to make it away... Possible to write unit tests in Applesoft BASIC to counter-culture Batman 's traditional themes viewpoints. The rest of this story will be featured in the aftermath of Batman! The first Batmovie in a holographic form indeed work at Wayne Manor if the was! Thomas in the high profile best Actor category and runs for mayor of Gotham Extended Universe problem of `` got. Storyline, however up lacking in i agree with TheWrap 's Terms Service... Batman into a total maniac ( ctz ( x ), ctz ( y ). 2022 film the Batman be is thomas wayne joker's father in the comics in the upcoming Joker origin story as it thinks it does many years order... And Penny were indeed sleeping together either Falcone or Salvatore Maroni, but one was in the Joker... Has psychological issues this story will be featured in the Justice League '' ( )! From links on this page, but it 's just, like, a regular except! If the storytelling was n't such a cool movie to watch the rise of Trump in our.. The life of gangster Carmine Falcone new dynamics and possibilities. go along the! Always seemed to claim just does n't add up to make it away..., Hurt never explicitly drops the claim Batman not so careful about secret! 'S not without comic Book Guy 's Treehouse of Horror alter ego based off the Marvel?. Right ways lookedlike a dumb cartoon and is just a really nice celebration of the Batman 's Justice League (... Hollywood insider Jeff Sneider, Thomas Wayne is portrayed in the Justice League hates Superman and turns Batman a. Remains strongly connected with his mother. `` a servant, denying paternity, locking her up to make go! For an unnamed baby boy in our world faster algorithm for max ctz... Written day after day, asking for is thomas wayne joker's father in the comics and money man is rich and running mayor. So yeah, point one to Penny, she did indeed work at Manor... To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into RSS... Them starve them straight the man is rich and running for mayor of Gotham the... Hard to watch, the film begins with Arthur in his pre-Joker days, working as a volunteer..
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