The rear track is 66" to the outside of each tire under custom fenders. C. Canuck Discussion Starter . Aug 12, 2010. Rear Track Width (inches) 59.8. It could be the long wheelbase that helped but they tended to slide rather than tip over. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The track width is normally measured to the centreline of the tyre. The Hudy setup book shows track width as outer edge of tire to outer edge of tire. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail. Track width is not flange to flange. Changing the rim and tire width doesn't change the track width, you're measuring center to center. Scottie, what is the wheel to wheel dista. Wow, the largest I have looked at is 61. Already a member? Measure across the tires on one axle from the outside of the tread on one tire to the inside of the tread on the tire on the other side of the vehicle, using a tape measure. Ford Focus front track width list. It's width, excluding mirrors, iS75.5 inches, and with those standard mirrors, 96.8 inches. http://www.turbobuicks.com/members/scottiegnz/vette-irs-swap.htm. How these two factors compliment each other is extremely dynamic. By My opinion is very unscientific and based only on driving "feel" following modification/adjustment of mag-free but otherwise box standard cars. This chassis no matter how much load you place on it will never deflect. It effects handling in a number of ways. Not only should increasing scrub radius help the kart turn-in more positively it should also require less steering angle from the driver. I'm rather pleased that I don't have a mathematical bone in my body. At the end of our test with a narrow track, front tires are not as hot as they should be, at least not the front right (inside) tire, while the front left (load-bearing) tire is close to the minimum pressure limit allowed at operating temperature. The front track was set by sliding the hubs to two notches so, not very wide, for a very free front end. The track width is the distance between the wheel centres along the transverse axis of the vehicle. *Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. "Take a car with 50/50 weight distribution, equal roll stiffness each end, same tires etc etc in a steady state corner (no wonder vehicle dynamics is confusing, we regard continual acceleration as steady state). Say you are taking a right hand bend. I have an example. You cant measure track or any other suspension variable with the car jacked up or on stands, the car needs to be at normal ride height. Copyright 1998-2023 engineering.com, Inc. All rights reserved.Unauthorized reproduction or linking forbidden without expressed written permission. because i seen that they do the same in other amateur series.. RH1300S RH1300S 1 Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:29 pm It may not display this or other websites correctly. Lift 100p of one side of the car and put it down on the other side and you will read the difference, rised load transfer, att the other axle. I'm presently trying to find a donor truck frame to put under a 1941 Dodge 1/2 ton PU. For instance, a shorter track width at the front and wider track width at the rear induce more understeer. I usually use 1500 pounds/inch (about 30 kg/mm) in my calculations, but, for my purposes, I could probably be just as happy using your number. All Rights Reserved. Put more simply, the wider track width tends to resist lateral weight transfer to a greater degree than a narrower one. With the big positive,(negative, whatever) offset of the corvette rims that seems to make sense. : Continue reading the article by subscribing for only 0.96 / week. This point exists in three dimensions. In a discussion in another topic very recently, it was said that a person could probably go a easy 6" over the width of the stock rear considering that wheels can usually be had with a 6" backset. There are two different theories that I have explored regarding the vertical center of gravity and front width. Billy, we must consider the chassis to be a rigid body. At my age, I'm beginning to wonder if I'll get this right before I'm gone. track width is measured from the center of the tires and can only equal an "hub-to-hub" measurement if the wheels have a 0 offset. Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. As was already demonstrated, wider front track width creates a greater amount of jacking effect across the front of the chassis and narrowing does the opposite. A certified petrolhead, Kiran channels his automotive passion by penning down all things motoring. Discussion in 'Technical' started by Hottrod1991, Aug 15, 2014. 24" Intro Twisted Blades. Front Track Width (inches) 58.7. Good topic, and this is my first time posting. It is now 3:1 wider at the front. EM - (off topic) I have tried for a long time to derive this equation. Axle and wheel track are commonly measured in millimetres or inches. Often this difference can be attributed to two things: Greg, I have considered the driveshaft angle and for my applicatio I may need to rotate the gearbox relative tot he engine. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Youll need a measuring tape, as well as a low profile trolley jack and some jack stands if your car has minimal working room underneath. You know, also, that the sum of the loads at the front (or rear) must remain constant. I am searching for the '68 convertible corvette he bought new in 68. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Our mission is to help you modify your car the right way, whatever your budget. These being tire loading and tire temperature. EGR Valves: What They Do, Symptoms & Cleaning or Replacement Costs. Park the vehicle on a flat, level area and set the parking brake. To put it simply, if youre running offset wheels, your tire centerline wont align with the hub flange. $49,210 Vehicle EPA Classification Small SUV 2WD Drivetrain Front Wheel Drive Engine Engine Order Code NA Engine Type and Required Fuel Gas/Electric I-4 Displacement (liters/cubic inches) 2.5. 267 likes, 2 comments - ROHMY (@rohmy_australia) on Instagram: ""The ROHMY in-house-built." - - This new ROHMY BULIT 79ute with our specially tailored modif." However, this relationship is a bit more complicated. Full analysis of the Tony Kart Racer 401 RR winner of the 2022 OKJ 5 tools (and tricks) to best manage a set of used tires. Having a wider wheel track means a better stance. Understanding what wheel track is and how it affects ride quality is important especially if youre considering a widebody kit. Doing so always makes the cars feel, to me, more stable. Karting. because i seen that they do the same in other amateur series.. I have found that the majority of the time this creates the feeling of quicker turn-in and conditionally greater mid-corner grip. Paste as plain text instead, For example, if the track at the moment is yielding high levels of grip. And you narrowed that 3 inches to fit your setup. The behavior of the front inside tire through these two bends, especially the one at mid-straight, as shown in the video shot with the Go Pro was also confirmed by the speed graph (green line) generated by AIM telemetry and GPS system. You are using an out of date browser. Hmmm Iv always gone with the old how wide can I make it before it gets scrutinised.. rule of thumb.. :thumbsup: Assuming the front axle is at a fixed height rather than floating and the front tyres touch the track in corners, I always feel that cars with narrower front track than rear tend to oversteer whilst cars with wider front track than rear tend to understeerjust like real cars. The paradox that karters experience with front width is that as you increase front width you also increase wheel leverage on thefront of the chassis. Weight transfer may then occur in greater quantities than opposite track conditions. These four aspects are vertical center of gravity across the front of the chassis, scrub radius, the leverage on the . The track width is 1250 mm on the front axle and 930 mm on the rear axle. The section analyzed goes from the S before the straight to the wide bend that comes after it. Check a earlier Dodge Dakota outI believe it will be close. rear wheels closer tgether aids in traction, for example dragster rear tires are very close. But what I am looking at may be fairly easy to do all things considered. It is interesting that my Lotus 6 was a complete pussycat on my 17 x 3.6" foot long Carrera track but I could not get it to handle the 270 degrees downward spiral second turn at Bordeaux. 7291 Views 1 Reply 2 Participants Last post by Rich27028, Aug 22, 2009. The first theory says that karts require weight transfer onto the outside tires to generate grip from the tire. "could I have the rear tyres mounted on a skateboard truck (6 inches apart) and the front tyres 24 inches apart?". Front Track/Rear Track. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Alignment machines "do" anything but measure the angles. later in design cycle (or if the vehicle is an iteration of a pre-existing architecture) may change the track width. For instance, reducing the ride height helps improve handling by lowering the center of gravity. You're right, when I upped the rear sta bar to bring the total roll rate back to the baseline value, there was no longer an increase in load transfer across the front axle, but (obviously) it did increase at the rear, so the oversteer contribution from the rear increased. The longer the track width, the more stable the car is around corners. It has been shown those scrub radius and castor angles are both directly related to jacking. Track width, front 74.0 74.3 Track width, rear 73.6 73.9 Ground clearance 12.0 13.1 Approach angle 31.0 33.1 Departure angle 23.9 24.9 Breakover angle 22.7 24.4 Open tailgate to ground 37.0 37.8 INTERIOR DIMENSIONS (INCHES UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED) SuperCrew Seating Five Front headroom 40.8 Maximum front legroom 43.9 Front shoulder . It is unlikely changes in the opposite axle will be made at this point just to make the front and rear track the same. Crazy Larry, Aug 16, 2014 #8. injectedmav Member. If you are running in conditions where tire temperatures are on the low side a good strategy for increasing grip may be to generate greater load on just one of the tires. Remember that wider scrub radius also increases the rate at which the inside and outside wheels change height. 1.26" on both sides added to the track = about 63" hub-to-hub. In this scenario you may be looking to get weight on the outside front or the inside front and this may help to generate better tire temperatures and the feeling of increasing front grip. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. As a result, it can be concluded that across a certain amount of steering input the inside front wheel will drop a given amount and that the outside front wheel will raise a certain amount. Thus you begin to overload the inside front and under load the outside front tire. That IRS is a 240SX, I believe. The overall length of Your vehicle, assuming the base modELRegular cab, is 209.4 inches. Language links are at the top of the page across from the title. Similarly, you would think that the roll stiffness due to a sway bar would also be unaffected by track. Thanks. When you did overcook the cornering the off was spectacular. Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action. The chassis has a bearing at ground level to create a fixed Rc so that a force applied only create a rotating moment to the chassis. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. Upload or insert images from URL. The best I can come up with my 65 Valiant is 56.5 ctc on the front. Wondering if S10 frames would be ok. 1) A wider track will make the springs feel weaker since you will be using a longer lever on them. These factors may interact with each other differently depending on which end of the spectrum you are on. Come join the discussion about collections, racing, displays, models, track layouts, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! So, if I was designing a car that used bicycle tyres, could I have the rear tyres mounted on a skateboard truck (6 inches apart) and the front tyres 24 inches apart? Scottie? The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. 1Introduction 2Guide for taking measurements 3Wheelbase, front track, rear track 3.1American Motors 3.2GM car 3.3Ford car 3.4Ford truck (wheelbase only) 3.5Mopar car 3.6Miscellaneous 4Rearend widths 4.1Chevrolet 4.2Ford 4.3Mopar 5Axle to axle, rear differential 5.1GM car 5.2GM truck 5.3Ford car 6Additional specifications 6.1Rear axle widths Steve said: Make Raceline fix your wheels :read: i am thinking in regards to the 24's. i want to go lower but if i do, i will f'k my fenders up with the edge of the tires when i turn. The final numbers will be dependant on rim dimensions/offsets available as well as other factors. Front track width is a function of at least four different factors. There is a tech article about the 1973 up tracking different from 1972. I'm probably one contact away from Tom. A wider track can increase the stress on the suspension bearings. All right, it's 4 equations and 4 unknowns. This means it becomes softer and more flexible, which equals more grip at the rear. When we look at a kart and imagine the center of gravity we try to view the point at which the mass is centered around. With more scrub radius, theres more kickback, meaning your steering will be more sensitive to directional changes every time it hits a pothole. I may very well end up with 100% stock setup. Rear wheels closer helps in attaining traction. Continue with Recommended Cookies, Return to Aerodynamics, chassis and tyres. With pete at 64 inches under stock fenders, I should be able to get another 2-3 some odd inches on each side, so 66-68 inches, fitting my "fantasy" arrangement. The wheels has an wheelrate in relation to the chassis. Billy, thanks, no calculate problem. Our test is concerned with variations in front track width, but rear track also plays an important role. Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. To give you an idea, I am looking at something that has a track width in the 58.25 range, front and rear. This measurement is the track width. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Just looking for a tape measure distance, accurate to about a half an inch. Scrub radius is the distance from the center of the tire to the kingpin bolt. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. You can post now and register later. If your car has decent ground clearance however, you might be able to skip this step. I have the Hoosiers on the car now so it would not be the best measurement. Now lets talk aesthetics. In summary, karts are fickle instruments to tune. The A-arm is parallel and equal length in order to lessen Wr changes. Just determine the moments created by the loads about an arbitrary axis parallel to the long axis of the car. CR II supplied wheel size and backspace. The equation, to which I referred, has the track in the denominator on one sie of the equal sign and the loading disparity in the numerator on the other. A vehicle's track, or track width, is the distance between the center line of each of the two wheels on the same axle on any given vehicle. Additionally, a chassis with zero degrees of castor and an infinitely large scrub radius will again experience zero net gain in wheel height change when steering input is changed. JavaScript is disabled. This of course depends on a few fitment-related parameters. Bob_H, For our first test session, we decided to do several laps with a standard set-up. For instance, a shorter track width at the front and wider track width at the rear induce more understeer. Finally some pics. Track width is limited to a maximum of 78 inches as measured from outside of tire to outside of tire." and here is the 8000 rule: "Front and rear track width is limited to 80 inches maximum as measured from center line of tire to center line of tire. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. This philosophy however is largely qualitative and before you live or die on these words I suggest you engage in extensive testing. CheersGreg LocockPlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips. We have received your request and will respond promptly. This applies not only to track condition but also what phase of the corner you are attempting to effect. I contend that both theories regarding front track width hold water, however, it is important to remember the complexity and conditionality of kart tuning. I checked the roll stiffness out using my scale model. All Rights Reserved, 6 quizzes on spark plugs for kart engines, 6 essential tools for the in-depth checking of a kart engine, Martin Hines: the incredible story of Mr. Not sure if it still available, but I had access to it if I wanted it. Was wondering if an S10 4X4 would work, have a line on an 1988 model. A vehicles track, or track width, is the distance between the center line of each of the two wheels on the same axle on any given vehicle. stop a 4 wheel alignment sets 4 wheels straight. That opens alot of donor's IMHO. To be honest, I have not fully explored this factor and cannot venture even a guess on how it changes chassis characteristic. So, Greg, are you going to break the bad news to the people who developed Car Sim? All are RWD with front or mid-engines. A wider front track in effect lessens the amount of leverage that the vertical center has over the two front wheels. Based on our test drivers impressions and AIM telemetric data, lets discover how widening or narrowing front-end track actually impacts kart performance, Verify how the kart responds to front track adjustments, Test 1: two-notch front width Test 2: five-notch front width, Even and well-kept tarmac, but completely rubber-free (the test was done in the middle of the week); this is why we opted for extremely high-performance tires like Vega White. Already a Member? Does it get any more complex than that?". In this article, well discuss what is track width, how it affects handling, and how to measure it yourself. Even so, you need to make sure front and rear grip are well balanced. Best thing to do is carry a tape measure with you and measure everything that you see untill you come up with one that will work. I have now built 2 Nissan Deltawings a 1/32 and a 1/24, there was very little difference in the handling compared to a normal car. Lets see if that was actually the case. Continue with Recommended Cookies. I think 3 of those inches will fit under stock fenders. When we discussed dynamics, we said a wide front plus a short rear tends to induce oversteer. The other theory says that a wider track lowers the center of gravity allowing the mass of the kart to be carried more evenly across the two front tires. So if you had 13x4" rims and 6.50/13" tires your "track width" would be different then if you were running 14x5.5" rims with E70 tires. Listed in alphabetical order. All Rights Reserved. Larger front track width decreases this weight transfer. Regarding on track characteristics I boil both of these theories down to two factors. I don't! Copyright 2023 Low Offset. Rule of thumb: pressure is about 80% of the spring rate at 2 bar, the rest is sidewalls. go back where I was at SET caster with adjustable upper and lower A frames. Trying to see if that extra 2 or so inches will fit under small flares. For a single axle the Wt=(cgh*g*w)/Tw, but when the two axles are working together the chassis will roll the same degree for both axles. Tire pressure Vega Bianche (factory recommended setting). Rear Door Opening Width (inches) NA. Passenger / Seating Capacity. Measuring track width is helpful when determining if a vehicle will fit on a car trailer, flat bed wrecker truck, or a hydraulic car lift. Minimum Ground Clearance (inches) 6.3. nissan irs from scotties page. Pair that to a lowered ride height and it all looks rather sporty and muscular. [2] [3] Common usage [ edit] (I notice the Milliken software does the same thing.) On the other hand, a wider front and a shorter rear track increase the oversteer tendency of the car. JavaScript is disabled. Goran, check out the equations at the top of page 683 in "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics." Narrow the rear track and you get the opposite effect. The "stock" front track width is 53.5 inchs,(1359mm), and the "stock" rear is 53 inchs,(1346mm). Close this window and log in. It is a tricky situation indeed. Even thou the suspensions were the same on both cars. So roughly 5 some odd inches over stock. In other words: if the front track is too narrow, it will fall short precisely on fast wide-radius bends, resulting in under-steering and loss of time in the attempt to correct it. Copyright 2023 Leaf Group Ltd. / Leaf Group Media. Suffice it to say that KPI is also very important in controlling the rate at which the wheels raise or drop. You can also measure end to end; just make sure to subtract the tread width from your measurement to get the exact wheel track. Answer (1 of 2): While cornering and braking weight transfer takes place diagonally that is from rear right to front left or vice versa. Making one chassis change often results in several changes in handling characteristics. Turn the steering wheel so the front wheels point straight. I didn't work out the change in roll stiffness, just fiddled with the a/r bar until I got the right overall roll rate. Changing the width alters at least four separate factors. The amount that each wheel changes height is thus a function of castor angle, scrub radius, and finally kingpin inclination. I forgot you had measurements on that page. The C4 has a 10" tire, so the track was measured at the 5" mark of the tires. Ford cars over the years used the same rear end width, wheel to wheel, and advertised track width varied from -1 inch to +2 inches. A shorter rear track results in relatively quicker weight transfer, making the car oversteer. Almost all car modifications, particularly those involving wheels and suspension can bring about unintended changes in the way your car drives. BTW, the tire spec on that club's site is incorrect and should be 255/50-16. The wider width does not literally move the center of gravity to a lower position but rather lessens the amount of leverage the existing center of gravity has over the chassis. 56-1/2 inches. For a vehicle with two axles, the measurements can be expressed as front track and rear track. On the following page I found the 84 specs for rear track width: But you measured hub to hub as 63 inches. Next, place the jack stands underneath for support. However, that is published track widths. Maverick frontend track width. hi everyone i have a question, i read the 09 cars specs, and they are wider in the front wheels than in the rears.. why is this? First: a wider front track increases the difference in height between the front tires while steering (in itself determined by the Ackermann angle), with an obvious consequence on grip. It also affects the dynamics of the car. Required fields are marked *. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers. Indeed in so many sorts of racing most racers put both the front and rear track as wide as the rules allow. Your browser is out of date. Most of the unibody cars got wider because of the disc brake hats. Front track width is a function of at least four different factors. If you find yourself in this dilemma and you feel that the kart needs to turn-in more positively you may need to approach the entry understeer with different devices (hint: narrow the front and add castor). Enjoy banner ad-free browsing with SlotForum Plus. Rear Track Width (inches) 58.7. Thought I would try and go 2" on my Demon, going for the nostalgia funny car look on the street. What is Track Width? A wider rear track means a longer axle segment between the outside bearing and the wheel hub, which translates in greater axle flexibility on the load side and so less rear end grip. On the other hand, it made for a quicker change of direction through the S bend. [4], In vehicles with offset wheels, wheel track is distinct from axle track because the centreline of the wheel is not flush with the hub flange. an example,If track width should be 200mm and you are at 202mm your car will not roll through a 200mm box during tech. This article about an automotive technology is a stub. Grip is a four letter word. When it comes to measuring track width, its fairly simple. 66" end to end? You know, this whole project might go by the wayside if I can find my dad's original car. A forum community dedicated to slot car owners and enthusiasts. In fact ,track width is a very powerful tool when setting up the car. It increases the front scrub radius, which leads to more steering effort. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Furthermore, narrow front widths tend to translate jacking effect more efficiently into the frame. any body prove me wrong. A arm length? Keep in mind that wider front widths effectively soften the chassis. Not at all. Isolating the rear track variable (which Greg was doing in his example) results in an increase in rear tire loading disparity as the rear track decreases. I also had planned on a wider front track, but how much wider would really make a difference? By decreasing or increasing your scrub radius through adjustment of overall front width you are also changing the amount of jacking effect created by the front end geometry of your kart. Some might confuse it with axle track, which is the distance between the hub flanges on an axle. It may then be true that reducing weight transfer either via front track width or by other means may increase the sensation of front grip. Going through my database of front/rear track differences in sportscars a new fact has come to the fore. The narrow front track setting produced an under-steering effect that we had to correct, with a waste of time through the fast bends. Let us know in the comments below! In the case of an axle with dual wheels, the centerline of the dual wheel assembly is used for the wheel track specification. Didn't really see the difference. Not sure on the value of my input, but I'll post anyways, and you can judge for yourself. Now since the increase in track width stabilizes the weight distribution so when we have a larger rear track . Assuming a high positive offset,(lots of rim inside of car), it might make that 3-4 some odd inches on each end wider. I had my front control arms made an inch narrower on my Duster with 2.25 back spaced wheels. Installing lighter wheels reduces unsprung weight, and using wider tires significantly enhances traction. Guru's help please. Conversely, in condition-Y making track width change-B will produce effect-2. The track width for the Ford F-150, for both the 6.5 ft Styleside and 8.0 ft Styleside both have a front and rear track width of 67.6 inches. Why is it so? Repeat this step on the other axle to get its track width. Wheel track, track width or simply track refers to the distance between the centerline of two wheels on the same axle. The load will be cantilevered further out than the suspensions maximum tolerance. So what is the determining factor of the track difference?
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